Once again, La Monnaie is presenting the magnificent production of Rusalka. Its visual richness, dramaturgic boldness and surprises fascinated audiences during its premiere. Stefan Herheim asserts his love of theatre and music in each of his stagings. The beautiful undine Rusalka is trapped by her passion for the Prince under the gaze of the spirit of the lake. Her metamorphosis becomes an occasion to explore the complexities of man’s desire for the many faces of each woman.

Your repertoire is eclectic. What prompts you to stage a particular opera? Are there some works which you prefer not to consider?
First of all, I must admit that I am crazy about opera and that I am fascinated by the ‘mechanism of musical theatre’. In my experience, music carries content, philosophy and psychology. Certain works from the ‘great’ repertoire do not appeal to me spontaneously. But on closer examination, I discover that they nevertheless conceal great richness or at least raise questions. And this, to me, is a fundamental element: it is not so much whether a work is beautiful or dreadful, good or bad, but instead whether it is able to formulate questions – why is something beautiful or dreadful, and what determines whether something is good or bad? In other words, the question exists as to what aesthetic tastes are based on, and how good and bad are defined based on aesthetic experience. As regards my repertoire, I’ve got my favourites. I never get tired of Mozart. And I have not yet been able to familiarise myself with other composers, such as Janáček.

You once said that music played a determining role in the choice of your works. Does the language of the opera also influence your choice?
The proposals I get point me in a certain direction. These past few years, I have often been asked to stage Wagner. I have not yet explored the French repertoire and I have just staged my first Russian opera: Tchaikovsky’s Eugene Onegin (in Amsterdam). It is sometimes terrifying to stage an opera in a language which we do not master. This was the case with Onegin. And Rusalka was my first opera in Czech. When I began working on it, I realised that the ‘problem’ was not as serious as I had thought: the libretto is very lyric and open. We have the impression that Dvořák wrote the ‘text’ of the opera in the music. It therefore involved an analysis of the score above all. And this is a generalisation: I always try to discover the true ‘text’ hidden in the music, because the music can tell something different from what is written in the libretto. Music is more powerful by definition!

In this context, what do you think about surtitling?
As an element of the performance, surtitling is necessary. Firstly, the translation of the libretto is coloured by the concept of the staging. The adaptation of the text for surtitling gives an additional boost to the interpretation. This is why I take some liberties with the surtitling, which I consider to be an element which supports our reading of the work. When I stage an opera, my idea is certainly not for it to be the ‘best interpretation’. This is in keeping with what I said earlier: in my opinion, art and opera are always modern, because we produce them ‘here and now’. We recompose the operas which we present on stage based on our intuition, potential and needs as modern men.

A translation into ‘here and now’ is also the approach which characterises your Rusalka, is it not? Isn’t your version of this story about escaping reality in the universe of fairytales?
I don’t really agree! [laughter] What is the meaning of a fairytale? These stories are always impregnated with a form of cruelty and betrayal. And as regards the escapism: I do not give the audience an opportunity to escape into a magical world where everything is rosy, but I tell the story of a man who experiences this. We are the witnesses of the needs which we translate into art, but art itself cannot impose them on us.

And for this you turn to an exaggerated realism. What is the underlying nature of this story?
It is a fairytale from a structural point of view as well. The characters do not have names – only names which indicate their function: vodník (spirit of the lake), rusalka (undine), ježibaba (witch), etc. Due to this meta-level, it seemed important to me to create a basis for identification. Each legend is based on eternal fears and problems which we face as human beings. Instead of working on the strangeness of the story or the context, I applied myself to great realism, so that the story could take place in a setting which everyone could identify with. I also anticipate a possible feeling of deception on behalf of the audience when they discover that the scenery refers to the everyday nature of reality and not to a fairytale world. Then I suggest the big question hidden in each art form: what is reality? It is a construction, just like language – an agreement which allows us to contemplate anything. But often the limitations which arise from this construction become a prison for our desires. This brings us closer to the core of Rusalka: the nymph is a prisoner of a world and is not allowed to belong to another world. There is a problem which I had to solve for myself: from a dramaturgic point of view, there are contradictions in the character of the undine. For three hours, everything takes place as though she were complaining about her situation. An echo of late romanticism may be perceived, with its dominant representation in the 19th century of the woman as a love object. In Rusalka, women are defined exclusively through the eyes of men. This is a fascinating element! Dvořák’s score begins with the omnipresent motif of the spirit of the lake: the spirit of the lake is always present, even when he does not sing or act. It became increasingly clear to me that he directed the action of the other characters. The story therefore begins with his repressed feelings and desires, and thus becomes extremely psychological.

How have you rendered this psychological development on stage?
With great liberty, but with a necessary awareness of the concept of time. I worked on several levels simultaneously, because for me there are only two characters in this story: a man and a woman. Several silhouettes stem from their ego and – in an almost schizophrenic way – take on character traits of their own. The story is like a shattered mirror which one must piece together. I also want to get the audience involved in this creative process: the viewer is no longer passive. This is one of the reasons why I readily work with mirrors in my stagings. The audience is part of the story.

Whose idea was it to speak of ‘clip clap dramaturgy’?
It was mine, but our dramatist, Wolfgang Willaschek, was enthusiastic about this expression and used it frequently. But it is typical of me to translate certain philosophical ideas in a concrete manner.

What does this concept designate precisely in Rusalka?
I wanted to reveal the mechanism of passing quickly from one perspective to another: at a given moment you see the stage from a certain angle, and then suddenly – ‘clip clap’ – it topples over and you see things from a different point of view. It is also a reflection on how we consider art in general. In Rusalka, we do not use it to define good and bad, but to call to mind the relative nature of everything. In my opinion, this is a notion which we should learn to cultivate better.

This is your first time back at La Monnaie since 2008. In the meantime this Rusalka has been presented in Graz and Dresden. What does this mean for your concept? What do revivals represent for you?
Until now I have participated in all of the revivals of Rusalka. Given that the underlying text which I have developed is studied and strange for the singers, I want to be there for them personally. I am therefore able to notice any problems they may encounter and integrate their reactions into the performance. The entire concept is borne by the performers. The fact that other opera houses show interest in my staging also confirms my belief that you can tell a story so that everybody everywhere is concerned – which has always been my goal.

Interview by MM